Cealaltă bombă islamică


Fie că cifrele sunt exacte sau pe lângă*, fie că sunteţi sau nu de acord cu mesajul acestui videoclip, nu puteţi nega că aceasta este tendinţa europeană în materie de demografie: dacă imigraţia islamică nu este oprită sau măcar limitată şi dacă europenii nu se trezesc din letargia ’68-istă, Europa anului 2050 va avea o …

Fie că cifrele sunt exacte sau pe lângă*, fie că sunteţi sau nu de acord cu mesajul acestui videoclip, nu puteţi nega că aceasta este tendinţa europeană în materie de demografie: dacă imigraţia islamică nu este oprită sau măcar limitată şi dacă europenii nu se trezesc din letargia ’68-istă, Europa anului 2050 va avea o cu totul altă faţă. Alarmism de „extremă dreaptă”? Nu, o simplă problemă de matematică. Rata natalităţii este cea mai scăzută din istorie, naţiunile europene se află într-un accentuat proces de îmbătrânire, iar imigranţii extra-europeni – proveniţi în proporţie covărşitoare din nordul Africii şi Orient şi fiind, implicit, de religie islamică – vin în număr tot mai mare şi aduc cu ei bunele obiceiuri de acasă, printre care şi formarea unor familii foarte numeroase. Asimilarea nu funcţionează, noii veniţi auto-izolându-se în ghetouri şi refuzând din start orice legătură cu restul societăţii. Cum poate fi altul deznodământul?

Libanizarea bătrânului continent abia a început; adevărata bombă islamică nu a explodat încă.

D.T. Devereaux - Cealaltă bombă islamică (The Other Islamic Bomb)

* Unele erori sunt într-adevăr greu de scuzat – cele 31 de ţări ale Uniunii Europene, ca şi confuzia care se face între UE şi continentul Europa -, dar observaţia rămâne însă valabilă: natalitatea sinucigaşă a europenilor, combinată cu natalitatea explozivă a valului islamic, va rezulta într-un cocktail exploziv.

Vlad M.

Vlad M.


  1. Imperialistu'Spune:

    mai 1, 2009

    Observatie Brussels Journal:

    When the video says that 25% of the population and 50% of all newborns „in Belgium” are Muslims, this applies to Brussels and not yet to Belgium as a whole.

  2. Mirela MustataSpune:

    mai 1, 2009

    Pai baieti puneti-va pe treaba sa-i intreceti. Ce va tine sa faceti si voi 4-5 copii? ????

  3. Imperialistu'Spune:

    mai 1, 2009

    O reactie cat se poate de previzibila. Daca n-as imparti lumea cu voi, zau ca m-as distra teribil privindu-va negociind feminismul cu adoratorii profetului. Am asa o banuiala ca intr-un meci intre lesbiana misandra Andrea Dworkin si sabia profetului metalul Religiei Pacii e mai tare.

    E oare atat de greu sa tratezi problema intr-un mod care sa nu dea impresia ca abia ai ajuns sa inveti despre sexualitate si te amuza orice are legatura cu subiectul?

  4. costinSpune:

    mai 1, 2009

    imperialistule, nu e nevoie sa sari asa ca ars. mie mi s-a parut o gluma inocenta. ( sau doar mi s-a parut… ???? )

  5. dr. jonesSpune:

    mai 1, 2009

    pe cine ati paria intr-un catfight dintre o feminista si un fluturas?

  6. costinSpune:

    mai 1, 2009

    un articol despre clipul pe care l-ai postat de la tipul care scrie pe

    Muslim Demographics – fact vs. fiction

    There’s a video going around about Muslim demographics in Europe. It was put up by FriendofMuslim, which turns out is a pseudonym for a Christian evangelist. As a side note, this is a common attitude among evangelists, shared by both Christians and Muslims – I convert you because I’m your friend.

    I received this clip from people, and I also saw several blog posts about it, and it seems to me that everybody is taking this clip as the gospel truth (pun intended). However, there are several major problems with it: it doesn’t cite sources, it mis-cites sources, and it gives erroneous information. There are sometimes references to sources on the bottom right, though they’re very hard to see.

    I originally thought to run down every single fact this clip claims, but I am not sure it’s worth my time and effort to work so hard to verify a clip, when the clip’s author didn’t put in the basic effort needed to double-check his sources.

    The clip starts by asserting that a culture cannot sustain itself for more than 25 years with a fertility rate of less than 2.11 children per family. A rate of 1.9 has never been reversed in history and a rate of 1.3 is impossible to reverse. Why? Apparently, if today people only have 1.3 children, the entire country is doomed to have under-replacement levels of fertility forever, or at least until the next generation. This ignores the fact that some European countries are showing a bounce in births. Besides which, Europe has a problem with biological infertility, and it remains to be seen whether this affects the Muslim population as well.

    I have a problem with demographic forecasts. They tend to assume that the world is constant and make their calculations accordingly. However, the world isn’t constant. As the clip stresses quite a few times: The world is changing.

    Of course, as doomsayers are prone to say, it’s changing for the worse. In a matter of years Europe as we know it will cease to exist. Of course, the maker of the clip doesn’t really stress the fact that Europe today is not the same as it was 100, 60, or 40 years ago.

    The clip says that 90% of European growth comes from Islamic immigration. This sounds very high to me. If anybody can give me a source, i’ll try to verify it. Muslims do make up a significant portion of non-Western immigration to Europe. In recent years, though, Poles and other East Europeans have been overtaking Muslims and other non-Westerns in immigration to northern Europe.

    Then the clip gets down to the real demographic scaremongering. I’ll pick out what I know for certain is not true. Muslims in France do not have 8.1 children per family, and it is very doubtful France will be Muslim 40 years from now.

    The clip claims that in Southern France, there are more mosques than churches, that 30% of children under 20 are Muslim, that in the larger cities, 45% of children under 20 are Muslim, and that by 2027 20% of the French will be Muslim. No sources, sadly.

    However, it is true that in the urban centers, the proportion of Muslim youth is very high, going up to 40%-50%. It is important to keep in mind, though, that Muslims mostly live in the urban centers.

    In the last 30 years, Muslim population in UK rose from 82,000 to 2.5 million. The clip just forgets to mention that this makes the Muslims a whopping 3.3% of the population.

    In the Netherlands – 50% of all newborns are Muslim and by 2024 half the population will be Muslim. I don’t know where those statistics are from. According to Statistics Netherlands, they expect a Muslim population of 8% or lower in 2050 (Quoted in an article (PDF, NL) published by Netherlands Interdisciplinary Demographic Institute)

    In Russia, 20% of the population is Muslim (surprisingly enough, most of those Muslims live in the Muslim republics), and 40% of the Russian army will soon be Muslim. One would think that shows that Russian Muslims are patriotic.

    The clip claims that also in Belgium 50% of newborns are Muslim, but then it goes on to say that 25% of the population are Muslim too. It sounds to me like he’s talking about Brussels. I hope people can differentiate between a country and its capital.

    The clip then goes on to say that according to the Belgian government, a third of children born in the EU in 2025 will be Muslim and that according to the German government, Germany will be a Muslim state in 2050. Here I did manage to find the probable source, LifeSiteNews, a Christian pro-life site. However, according to the LifeSiteNews article, these two estimates come from Brussels Journal and demographic trend-watchers. Not exactly governmental sources.

    This same article quotes Walter Rademacher of the German Federal Statistics Office who says quite clearly: „Even those people who are immigrants adopt after a couple years the lifestyle and the number of children per family. So the assumption that immigrants will stick to their habits is simply not true.” This is a point that most demographic doomsayers prefer to ignore. Second generation immigrants have fewer babies and marry at an older age, acting more and more like the native ethnic population. It is true that this is offset by the incoming immigration, but then it becomes a problem of immigration, not a ticking timebomb of the local population.

    The clip then quotes Muammar Qaddafi as the expert on Islamic demographics in Europe. It is true that there are many Muslim leaders who brag about the fact that Islam will soon take over Europe, America and the world. I don’t see a reason to believe them, though.

    According to the clip the German government expects there to be 104 million Muslims in Europe within the next 20 years. Again, no source, but keep in mind that Europe, in this context, is the entire continent, including those countries with a Muslim majority or large local Muslim minority.

    The clip then moves to Canada and the US, and discovers that Islam is an evangelizing religion.

    The final conclusion is that Christianity should start evangelizing too. Though I doubt it ever stopped.

    Currently Europe has a Muslim population of 3-5%, in most countries. And currently, this very small minority is reason for serious debates and the rise of anti-immigration, anti-Islam and anti-minority parties. In the past Europe was a very intolerant society, a situation which has changed only in the past couple of centuries, or even in the past few decades. The situation now is differnet, but the world is a constantly changing place, and so is Europe. I think that any demographic study should take that into account.

    Am tendinta sa il iau in serios pe gagiu. De citiva ani de zile citeste ziare din tot nordul europei si in primul rind scandinavia, si traduce articole. Tipul stie probabil cam toate limbile nordice.
    Clipul ar trebui luat deci with a grain of salt…

  7. Imperialistu'Spune:

    mai 1, 2009

    Hai ca imi vine sa rad. Liderul libian, luat drept expert in demografia islamica? Cumva ne-am uitat la clipuri diferite? Aici nu este vorba de expertiza liderului libian, ci de sentimentul comun multor musulmani veniti in Occident, carora le este foarte clar ca sunt un soi de colonizatori. Am vazut atatea scene cu Islam will conquer Europe ca nu inteleg ce i se pare asa ciudat autorului citat de tine. L-au luat pe conducatorul Libiei pentru ca el e mai vocal si mai important decat Mahomed din piata, nu pentru ca este un expert in imigratie si demogragie.

    Nu am scris nicaieri ca videoclipul trebuie luat ad literram. Poate trebuie sa fi fost mai explicit in acest sens, dar am considerat ca nu are rost sa imi bag capul prea tare din moment ce important este mesajul si oricum nici un om nu trebuie sa renunte la spiritul critic.

    Videoclipul se refera la intreaga Europa si chiar daca cifrele nu ar fi cele reale, ceea ce se prea poate in aceste vremuri de surse ciudate, nu e nevoie sa fi geniu al statisticii pentru a-ti da seama de tendinta generala si aceea ne cam doare. Mi se pare absolut ridicol sa ii bagi in ecuatia imigratiei europene pe polonezi, ucrainieni, rusi, noi si altii si sa spui ca nu-s probleme. Noi nu imigram in Europa (continentul Europa), ci in entitatea politica UE, ori problema se pune la nivelul intregului continent. Arabul din Maghreb imigreaza in continentul Europa, de cele mai multe ori cu tot cu familionul lui.

    Pentru mine e de ajuns ca Mahomed este cel mai popular nume de copil din Marea Britanie, o tara cu peste 50 de milioane de locuitori. Daca asta nu este un semnal de alarma, atunci putem continua politica sinucigasa in materie de imigratie si demografie si sa ne consolam cu ideea ca nu o sa dureze X ani islamizarea continentului, ci X*2.

    Si apoi, uite ce gasesc pe site-ul Islam in Europe, acelasi de pe care ai citat si tu.

    Muslim population in European cities

    Marseilles – 25% (200,000 of 800,000) (NEWS), PACA region – 20% (0.7-1.0 million of 1.5 million) (EUMAP)
    Malmo – ~25% (NEWS) [percent of immigrants, foreign born or both parents foreign born: 36% (STAT)]
    Amsterdam – 24% (180,000 of 750,000) (STAT), Greater Amsterdam – 12.7% (STAT)
    Stockholm – 20% (>155,000 of 771,038) (EUMAP) [percent of immigrants: 36% (STAT)]
    Brussels – 17%-20% (160,000-220,000) [some say 33%] (NEWS, NEWS)
    Moscow – 16%-20% (2 million of 10-12 milllion) (NEWS)
    Greater London – 17% (1.3 million of 7.5 million) (WIKI)
    Luton – 14.6% (26,963) (WIKI)
    Birmingham 14.3% (139,771) (WIKI)
    The Hague – 14.2% ( 67,896 of 475,580) (STAT), Greater Hague – 11% (STAT)
    Utrecht – 13.2% (38,300 of 289,000) (STAT), Greater Utrecht – 7% (STAT)
    Rotterdam – 13% (80,000 of 600,000) (EUMAP), Greater Rotterdam – 9.9% (STAT)
    Copenhagen – 12.6% (63,000 of 500,000) ( EUMAP)
    Leicester – 11% (>30,000 of 280,000) (EUMAP)
    Aarhus – ~10% (NEWS)
    Zaan district (Netherlands) – 8.8% (STAT)
    Paris – 7.38% (155,000 of 2.1 million) (EUMAP)
    Antwerp- 6.7% (>30,000 of >450,000) (EUMAP)
    Hamburg – 6.4% (>110,000 of 1.73 million) (EUMAP)
    Berlin – 5.9% (~200,000 of 3.40 million) (EUMAP)

    12% din Copenhaga e musulmana, dar nu avem de ce sa ne alarmam?!

    P.S. Nu stiu daca armata rusa va fi islamica in 15 ani, dar daca proportia din armata se schimba sensibil in favoarea musulmanilor din Federatie, acest lucru nu se va datora patriotismului musulmanilor, cum naiv crede autorul articolului, ci firii razboinice a adoratorilor profetului.

  8. costinSpune:

    mai 1, 2009

    imperialistule, ti-am mai zis eu… sari prea repede si prea sus. Nu am pus articolul asta ca sa iti dau peste nas, cum ai inteles tu.
    Pe tipul asta nu il intereseaza sa desfiinteze clipul ci sa ia la puricat ce se spune in el. Tu ai vazut cum se chiama situl lui?

  9. Imperialistu'Spune:

    mai 1, 2009

    Nu am sarit in nici un fel din moment ce nu m-am considerat „lovit”, numai ca articolul de mai sus, desi aduce unele clarificari poate necesare, o da in bara destul de serios. „Scaremongering” zice? Hai, dom’le, sa fim seriosi. Adica europenii isi mutileaza limba sub imperiul corectitudinii politice si isi cer scuze ingroziti pentru niste amarate de caricaturi, in conditiile in care musulmanii sunt inca o mica minoritate, si nenea asta imi zice ca Eurabia este o simpla inventie a unor „doomsayers”? Nici nu e nevoie ca majoritatea populatiei sa fie islamice. Daca musulmanii pot astazi sa ii sperie pe toti, probabil ca atunci cand or trece peste pragul de 25% din populatie, nimeni nu le va mai putea sta in cale.

    Sigur, putem cita diverse studii optimiste despre cum vezi Doamne imigrantii islamici se adapteaza la noul mediu european, mai renunta la proastele obiceiuri de acasa, bla bla bla, dar adevarul e ca nu prea o fac si mai intalnit e fenomenul invers: imigrantul de a doua generatie tinde sa revina la the roots. Asa se explica de ce atatia born and bred brits de religie mahomedana au atata ura fata de Marea Britanie; asa se explica de ce in banlieu-ri maghrebienii isi fac de cap; asa se explica de ce turcii nu se integreaza in Germania si se enclavizeaza cu inversunare. etc.

    Nenea asta de la Islam in Europe imi pare ca e la cativa pasi de CJ de Europa.


  10. raverSpune:

    mai 1, 2009

    Da, da, imi aduc aminte cum acum nici 5-6 ani umbla aceeasi discutie prin multe colturi ale tarisoarei noastre, insa nu se discuta despre musulmani, ci despre Tzigani ????
    Revenind la subiect, ia sa vedem ce gasim daca ne documentam un pic pe hInternet ????

    Racism is, then, a critical element–perhaps a dominant concept–relative to these concepts. If European Muslims or New York City Jews are inherently subversive, undermining legitimate decisionmaking processes in political and social life, how can anyone who belongs to either category be allowed to participate at all? Eurabia and Jew York City are, at their roots, concepts which demand the ghettoization of the groups from which they take their names, their exclusion from any non-subordinate role. These terms’ use is a good marker for some sort of highly exclusionary racism.
    Cognitive bias skews perception and Randy makes the very good point, that all things being equal, a population of 15mn isn’t exactly going to overwhelm 480mn in the forseeable future. As for forecasting to 2100, it’s futurology and in the same manner how my 1970’s books commented on the 90’s.

    The maths don’t work and one would have to build certain stereotypes to conclude that it could ever happen; i.e Muslims inherently have large families and part of their cultural self-awareness.

    Well Iran, the Islamic theocracy, has a plunging TFR (total fertility rate) as Iranian women are encouraged, by Mullahs no less, to use contraception and limit their family size. Surely there is some truth in that Dutch Muslims would have interact in a more liberal environment than their Iranian co-religionists?
    Ultimately, the muslim and jewish communities will find it impossible to prevent significant cultural cross-pollination as their numbers grow (as can already be seen in the high rate of crossover marriages in the Jewish community here in the US). So by the time muslims reach numerical mass significant enough to pose a potential threat to the established order, if ever, the question will be largely moot. Only racists can argue otherwise.

    Si acum, partea mai interesanta..reproduc o mica parte, vedeti linkul de mai jos pentru un articol foarte interesant despre cresterea demografica a arabilor in Franta..

    Rafie Boustani and Philippe Fargues’ 1990 The Atlas of the Arab World cites a population of two million Arabs in France circa 1989, reflecting the author’s definition of an Arab as someone connected to an Arab „language and historical conscience” (106). The 1982 French census identifies 796 thousand Arabs as being of Algerian origin, 431 thousand as being of Moroccan origin, 189 thousand as being of Tunisian origin, and another hundred thousand or so coming from another six Arab countries (Djibouti, Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, Mauritania, Syria). The difference between the two could be explained by a rate of population growth of 3.5% growth per annum between 1982 and 1990.

    Figures of eight million French Muslims are regularly tossed around, based, it seems, on panicked fears of high Muslim immigration and a high Muslim birth rate. These figures are vastly overestimated, though. Figures on religious affiliation and ethnic background aren’t kept by the French government, as part of a long-standing reaction against the misuse of those figures by Vichy to deport immigrant Jews to the concentration camps. The suggestions of The Economist that there are a bit over four million French Muslims seem to be more sensible and generally accepted. This amounts to roughly 7% of the French population–a significant number, to be sure, but not an overwhelming majority.

    If this minority population grew for the next 50 years at a rate of 2% per annum (a high rate, and one that doesn’t seem to be supported by signs of an ongoing demographic transition), while the remainder of the population shrunk at a rate of 0.5% per annum (also a high rate of decrease, and one that doesn’t seem likely to be achieved for a while given generally high French fertility rates), at the end of this 50 year period the total French population would have shrunk by 9%, and France’s Muslim population would amount to roughly one-fifth of the total. You’d have to wait for a century to approach a position of parity between the two populations, assuming the same unrealistic growth rates. This is definitely not any sort of imminent threat, nor as I shall demonstrate is it a very plausible threat at all.
    For starters, Muslim immigrants to France hardly came from a single cultural background–Algerians might form a plurality, but Moroccans, Tunisians, Turks, and Senegalese (among other national groups) formed large and significant populations in the influx. Maghrebin Muslims hardly share a single homogeneous cultural background, after all. The differences between Arabophones and Berberphones, between different tribal and linguistic groups of both major language communities, between relatively francized Algerians and urbanized Tunisians and rural conservative Moroccans, and between relatively Europeanized and relatively traditional classes and subpopulations, shouldn’t be underestimated by any means. Broadening the focus to include West Africans and Turks certainly doesn’t simplify things. The task of constructing national identities is difficult enough in the Maghrebin sending countries; transferring these identities to their various diasporas would be a challenge even if these separate diasporas were unified entities.

    So, in France now, we have four million people of Muslim background, coming from diverse social levels, ethnic backgrounds, political orientations, and religious communities in their homelands, tracing their origins mainly to the states of the Maghreb but including migrants from areas as far separated as the Niger river basin and the Anatolian plateau. What will happen?

    What won’t happen is the reproduction of their ancestral cultures. Eugen Weber’s Making Peasants into Frenchmen observed how, in Third Republic France, heavy migration to certain areas–Lorraine, the Nord, Provence–helped break down their traditional cultures, by disrupting the homogeneity that the reproduction of these traditional cultures required and allowing the introduction of a generically „French” culture to act as a koine for these heterogeneous populations. If people form relationships and marry across different lines–clan or tribal, ethnic or linguistic, national or religious–it will be decidedly difficult to reproduce ancestral cultures in the second generation.

    French Muslims can, in theory, respond to the erosion of their ancestral cultures by trying to create a self-consciously „French” Muslim culture, trying to counterbalance the need for religious solidarity and respect for tradition with the need to deal with French culture. Indeed, the French government’s promotion of community religious organizations is part of an effort to construct just such a community. Still, building a culture from scratch is always more costly than assimilating into a culture that already exists and pervades your lives, like that of mainstream France.

    Articolul continua sa analizeze diversi factori insignifianti precum scaderea numarului de arabi ce invata limba mama incepand cu a doua generatie, numarul de femei/barbati ce se casatoresc in afara „speciei”, procentul de secularizare a arabilor ce au rarit vizitele la moschei, etc etc etc.

  11. costinSpune:

    mai 1, 2009

    Raver, iar genul de echivalari trase de par, de data asta intre evrei si musulmani.

    De ce exagerarea nu se bazeaza pe realitate? pentru ca:

    * Denmark: 55% of Muslims think criticizing religion should be forbidden, 64% support curtailing freedom of speech
    * Denmark: Close to 90% of Muslims would vote for the Left
    * Denmark: 18% of Muslims want to see Sharia law implemented
    * Denmark: Muslim attitudes towards terrorism, terrorist groups and the Iraq/Afghanistan Wars
    ( )

    pentru ca:

    French police face ‘permanent intifada’

    By JAMEY KEATEN, Associated Press Writer

    Sun Oct 22

    EPINAY-SUR-SEINE, France – On a routine call, three unwitting police officers fell into a trap. A car darted out to block their path, and dozens of hooded youths surged out of the darkness to attack them with stones, bats and tear gas before fleeing. One officer was hospitalized, and no arrests made.

    The recent ambush was emblematic of what some officers say has become a near-perpetual and increasingly violent conflict between police and gangs in tough, largely immigrant French neighborhoods that were the scene of a three-week paroxysm of rioting last year.

    One small police union claims officers are facing a „permanent intifada.” Police injuries have risen in the year since the wave of violence.

    National police reported 2,458 cases of violence against officers in the first six months of the year, on pace to top the 4,246 cases recorded for all of 2005 and the 3,842 in 2004.

    pentru ca:

    pentru ca:

    pentru ca:

    si iti pot da foarte multe alte exemple.
    ei bine, astea sint motivele pentru care cred ca ce se intimpla acum este ingrijorator. Chestia cu jew york city e o gluma proasta si punerea ei incercind explicarea a ceea ce cred unii este o gluma si mai proasta.

    si asta: ” These terms’ use is a good marker for some sort of highly exclusionary racism.” nu are nici o legatura cu realitatea, pentru ca islamul nu e o rasa, dar nu cred ca este nevoie sa iti explic asta.

    „numarul de femei/barbati ce se casatoresc in afara “speciei”,” in afara religiei, nu speciei… este apropo in scadere.

    ah, si inca un exemplu, de zilele astea. In Malmo, Suedia, politia a declarat oficial ca nu mai are ce face pentru a stapini situatia din cartierul Rosengard:

    We’re not able manage the problems”

    By Tobias Barkman

    It’s too dangerous for the police to enter Herrgården. Area police manager Börje Andersson says that the police can’t solve the problems in the housing area.

    “When we are in there the stones are hailing, Molotov cocktails are flying, firecrackers and other stuff. From balconies and from rooftops. I have a responsibility to act, and at the same time I have a work environment responsibility, too. We can’t walk around in helmets, knee-protection, and shoulder pads all the time, in the daytime there.

    “Herrgården is goddamn hard for us to work at. If we disguise ourselves, if we have holes where we can sit and investigate [i.e. surveillance], when we try to document, it’s uncovered all the time. Right away texting-chains get started about us being there.”

    Can’t you be there to begin with — really, nobody starts a fire when they have the eyes of the police on them?

    “In 2007 we were big on being on location in uniform. But at the present, when we work in uniform, rocks are coming from right and left. Therefore we try to work surveillance in another way.”

    Do you maintain law and order in Herrgården?

    “Almost fully. In certain situations we can’t fully maintain law and order. And certainly not initiate legal proceedings against people. Among other things, because we can’t get the inhabitants of Herrgården to witness. If we want something done, we have to catch people red-handed and that is very difficult to do. Thus, it’s hard to maintain law and order.”

    Even if the fires aren’t life-threatening, people get smoke in their homes, they have to zigzag between burning tires. Why can’t the people of Herrgården count upon the same level of service as any other housing area in Malmö?

    Nu am timp sa iti raspund mai pe larg acum cu cuvintele mele, te rog sa imi spui din exemplele care ti le-am dat, unde mai este loc de „Cognitive bias skews”?

  12. costinSpune:

    mai 1, 2009

    Raver: si pt ca citatele tale se refereau la musulmanii din Franta, uite ce spune un fost ambasador al Frantei in Indonezia:

    A mutation of our nation is in progress. It is growing, it is profound but uncontrolled. In all likelihood, the immense majority of Frenchmen are unaware of it.

    Hundreds of thousands of Muslim families, from North Africa, the Middle East and black Africa – whose religion, aspirations and mores are radically different from ours – now live on our soil. Their birth rate is higher than that of European families. What is the consequence? Within 30 years the population of Islamist culture could be in the majority among those 40 years old or younger. „In France, we will have between 6 and 8 million Arabs by the years 2005 – 2010,” said Edgar Pisani, honorary president of the Arab World Institute. We have been duly warned: this is a radical transformation (political, economic, cultural and social) of our society.

    This mutation is in progress at the very moment when, to use Toynbee’s expression, „an external proletariat” is forming on the southern and western shores of the Mediterranean Sea. This army of reservists came about as a result of the birth rate of these peoples, and the absence of an economic policy capable of guaranteeing them a decent life in their homeland. In front of them lie France, Italy, Spain and Germany, lands of mirage, highly developed, with guaranteed employment, free social protection and education. Who could resist the call of this „promised land”?

    At the same time, all over the world, roused by immense hopes, Islam is enjoying an unprecedented revival. It is awakening after a long night. It has renewed vigor, pugnacity and ambitions. From Morocco to Indonesia, from the Muslim States of Central Asia to black Africa, more than one billion two hundred million men – young compared to the aging populations of Europe – constitute a „community” (Umma).

    It is transnational, motivated by spiritual aspirations, material demands and political ambitions, and (here and there) financed by revenue from oil.

    Te rog sa il citesti pe tot si sa imi spui unde si ce greseste. E rasism? (e islamul o religie?) este alarmism? cu ce greseste? Ce parere ai despre lumea in care traim in care devine penal sa spui adevarul… anumite adevaruri? (blogeri arestati, batuti, dati in judecata) spune-mi daca mai ai nevoie de exemple concrete.

  13. Transsylvania PhoenixSpune:

    mai 1, 2009


    A Missed Anniversary: „Vous les Americains Sont Pires que les Francais.”
    Confesiunea unui fost communist American despre greselile tineretii revolutionare, ura fata de propria-i tara si consecintele actiunilor sale care in mod indirect au dus la moartea a milioane de oameni si care inca ii apasa constiinta.

  14. Imperialistu'Spune:

    mai 1, 2009

    Hehe, Rave, matale faci parte din aia cu imagine all the people. Dragut, poate chiar nobil, dar SF. Ce se vede astazi in multe orase europene era de neimaginat acum 30 de ani si asta nu o poti nega nici macar tu. Ca ti se pare normal sau nedemn de luat in considerare, este opinia si dreptul dumitale, dar nu afecteaza in nici un fel problema: peisajul demografic european se schimba si nu in avantajul europenilor.

    Observ ca ai dat-o in problema tiganeasca, in dulcele stil clasic al anti-rasistilor de salon. Asa fac toti astia ca tine: cum critica cine vreo minoritate cu apucaturi „deosebite” sau trage vreun semnal de alarma, cum se trezeste cate un destept sa insinueze ca de fapt totul se reduce la rasism si astia care au ceva de criticat sunt de fapt niste mici hitleristi*. Ma, baieti, fiecare intelege cat poate, dar daca tot vrei sa discutam despre tigani, sper ca iti dai seama ca numarul de tigani este un fals de toata splendoarea. E de ajuns sa te uiti pe strada ca sa iti dai seama de asta.

    P.S. Paralela musulmani-evrei e simpatica, dar nu-mi amintesc ca evreii sa se fi aruncat in aer in metroul londonez. In schimb, imi aduc aminte de musulmanii care urlau pe strazile Londrei „Papa sa arda in iad” si „Europe you will pay/ Bin Laden on his way”.

    * Ceva-ceva ati mirosit voi, dar cum ganditi in clisee, nu puteti trece dincolo de ele. Diversitatea artificiala nu este un castig decat in mintea deconstructivistilor de dambovita. Natiunile europene au dreptul la propria lor existenta, dragi tovarasi si pretini. Franta nu trebuie sa devina Africa 2.

  15. raverSpune:

    mai 1, 2009

    @costin. Am citit ce ai postat aici, inca nu am intrat pe link ca mai am multe ore de munca in fata, insa (din ce am citit aici) discursul acelui ambasador este doar atat. Un speech bine facut, dar care nu aduce nimic concret pe masa. Preziceri se gasesc la orice colt de strada.

    @Imperialistu’ – Nu te grabi sa sari cu concluziile. Chestia cu tiganii a fost doar o mica anecdota.
    Pentru ca intr-adevar imi aduc aminte ca auzeam ca la cum se inmultesc ei si noi nu prea, Romania va deveni RRomania in ceva ani. Nu am vrut sa exprim nici mai mult, nici mai putin ????
    Critici 90% din post-ul meu bazandu-te pe primele doua propozitii, ce nu au deloc semnificatia a ceea ce a urmat ????

    P.S. Paralela musulmani-evrei e simpatica, dar nu-mi amintesc ca evreii sa se fi aruncat in aer in metroul londonez. In schimb, imi aduc aminte de musulmanii care urlau pe strazile Londrei “Papa sa arda in iad” si “Europe you will pay/ Bin Laden on his way”.
    Din nou, nu are nici o legatura ce zici tu aici. Articolul de und eam paste-uit nemilos nu incerca sa aduca in fata similitudini sau diferente intre aceste doua „grupuri”, ci doar sa sublinieze faptul ca exista aceleasi prejudecati pentru ambele.
    Ba ca ne vor conduce evreii si familiile francmasoane, ba ca o sa murim inecati in arabi ???? Si de obicei, tipologia omului care ii arata cu degetul este si el, un stereotip ????

    @costin din nou… o sa ma uit atent pe linkurile de mai sus si o sa revin dupa.

  16. costinSpune:

    mai 1, 2009

    Bine raver, m-ai facut curios.
    Apoi, discursul ambasadorului francez, este un discurs al unui ambasador francez intr-o tara islamica si in curs de radicalizare, care a avut ocazia de a discerne dinamica evenimentelor de aproape. Amanuntul „ambasador” este important pentru ca astfel scoate ceea ce spune din banal si palavrageala irelevanta care se poate „gasi la orice colt de strada”. Deci, poate chiar este ceva acolo…

  17. FrancescoSpune:

    mai 1, 2009

    Vrea cineva sa-l ajute pe calatorul din imagine sa ajunga la destinatie? Poate Raver?


    Desen de Tom Janssen

  18. costinSpune:

    mai 1, 2009

    TP, mersi. O sa ma uit, dar nu am timp zilele astea…. si asa mai am ceva restante pe la tine, parca.

  19. Mirela MustataSpune:

    mai 1, 2009

    Am vazut ca problema se punea astfel si in America, pe timpul lui Bush, referitor la mexicani. Atata timp cat e nevoie de mana de lucru ieftina si usor de manevrat, imigrantii vor fi lasati sa intre in acea tara. Cred ca preferati ca pensia sa fie platita din taxele luate de la un mexican / arab decat sa nu se dea din lipsa de fonduri.

    Singura optiune in cazul in care am dori sa blocam accesul imigrantilor ar fi sporirea natalitatii, dar Imperialistu’ mi-a zis ca aceasta propunere e „puerila”. Alte idei?

  20. Mirela MustataSpune:

    mai 1, 2009

    referitor la dilema imigrantilor mexicani:

  21. FrancescoSpune:

    mai 1, 2009

    Mirela, despre afirmaţiile din comentariile 19 şi 20: cred că s-au scris deja biblioteci întregi în care se arată contrariul. Vorbeşti serios când afirmi că sistemul de pensii în UE depinde de contribuţiile emigranţilor arabi?

  22. Imperialistu'Spune:

    mai 1, 2009

    Da, exista o problema asemanatoare si in Statele Unite: milioane de mexicani au intrat legal, dar mai ales ilegal, in Statele Unite ultimilor 40 de ani, mult prea multi pentru a mai putea fi asimilati de populatia americana.

    Mexican Immigrants in the United States, 2008 (PEW Research Center)

    A record 12.7 million Mexican immigrants lived in the United States in 2008, a 17-fold increase since 1970. Mexicans now account for 32% of all immigrants living in this country. The second-largest nationality group of immigrants, Filipinos, accounts for just 5% of all immigrants in the U.S.

    More than half (55%) of the Mexican immigrants in this country are unauthorized. Overall, Mexicans comprise about six-in-ten (59%) of the estimated 11.9 million unauthorized immigrants in the U.S.

    No other country in the world has as many total immigrants from all countries as the United States has immigrants from Mexico alone. Other than the U.S., the country that hosts the largest number of immigrants is Russia, with 12 million foreign born, many of whom are natives of countries that were part of the former Soviet Union.

    The number of Mexicans living in the U.S. is very large from Mexico’s perspective, too. About 11% of everyone born in Mexico is currently living in the U.S. This large-scale transfer of population has taken place fairly quickly in demographic terms. As of 1970, 760,000 Mexican immigrants, or 1.4% of Mexico’s population, lived in the U.S. And in 1960, Mexico ranked seventh as a source of immigrants to the U.S., behind Italy, Germany, Canada, the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom and Poland.

    Large-scale settlement in the U.S. by Mexicans began in earnest in the 1970s. By 1980, Mexico had the largest foreign-born population here with 2.2 million, or more than twice the second-place country (Germany at 850,000). The number of Mexicans immigrants to the U.S. doubled from 1980 to 1990 and more than doubled from 1990 to 2000. While the growth rate of the Mexican immigrant population has slowed considerably since 2006, the total number reached a record 12.7 million in 2008, or almost 17 times the number in 1970. Mexicans make up the largest number of undocumented immigrants in the U.S. (7.0 million, or 59%) as well as the largest number of legal immigrants (5.7 million, or 21%).

    The current Mexican share of all foreign born living in the U.S. — 32% — is the highest concentration of immigrants to the U.S. from a single country since the late 19th century. But it is not unprecedented. Irish immigrants represented a third or more of the immigrant population from 1850 to 1870. Germans were 26% to 30% of the foreign-born population from 1850 to 1900.

    As a group, Mexican immigrants are younger than either other immigrants or the U.S.-born population. A higher percentage of them are male than in either of the other groups, and they are more likely to be married. They are less likely to be U.S. citizens than other immigrants, in part because they are more likely to be unauthorized. Mexicans have lower levels of education, lower incomes, larger households and higher poverty rates than other groups. They are slightly more likely to be in the labor force, where they are more likely to work in lower-skilled occupations; they currently have a higher unemployment rate than other immigrants or U.S.-born workers.

    Dar problema mexicana, oricat de grava ar fi ea, paleste in comparatie cu imigratia islamica din Europa.

    Cred ca preferati ca pensia sa fie platita din taxele luate de la un mexican / arab decat sa nu se dea din lipsa de fonduri.

    Singura optiune in cazul in care am dori sa blocam accesul imigrantilor ar fi sporirea natalitatii, dar Imperialistu’ mi-a zis ca aceasta propunere e “puerila”. Alte idei?

    Nu, eu prefer ca mexicanul si arabul sa mai stea pe acasa, iar domnul american, respectiv european sa se ridice din fotoliu si sa munceasca asa cum au muncit stramosii lui. Pensia nu va fi platita de maghrebieni sau pakistanezi. Din contra, astia vor manca si mai mult ajutor social, asa cum se si vede in Germania, Franta si Anglia unde comunitatile islamice sunt mari consumatori de resurse de la buget.

    – incurajarea natalitatii europene (europenii au mai multi catei decat copii);
    – schimbarea filosofiei politicilor sociale (renuntarea la acest welfare state absolut distrugator care premiaza pe neproductiv, penalizeaza pe cel productiv si invita hoarde extraeuropene, chipurile pentru „plata pensiei”);
    – securizarea granitelor si expulzarea imigrantilor ilegali „de oriunde ar fi ei” (ca tot le place musulmanilor fraza asta coranica, cel putin atunci cand e legata de lupta impotriva necredinciosilor);
    – renuntarea la multiculturalism si la corectitudine politica.

    Ce altceva mai poti face?

  23. dr. jonesSpune:

    mai 1, 2009

    Cred ca preferati ca pensia sa fie platita din taxele luate de la un mexican / arab decat sa nu se dea din lipsa de fonduri.

    pai daca mexicanii sunt ilegali, ce pensie sa primesc eu pe baza lor?
    pai mexicanii nu isi platesc impozite, nu platesc health insurance ( dar nici n spital nu are voie sa te refuze – iti trimite factura acasa – pe care o platesti sau nu, nu au voie sa te dea nici la collectible, singurul lucru pe care ti-l pot face este sa iti afecteze credit history – pe care mexicanii ilegali nu il au).
    asa s-au umplut spitalele de datorii.
    pe langa asta f. multi ilegali de toate natiile, si-au facut credit carduri ( cei care au obtinut social security si deci au putut sa isi construiasca ch) apoi le-au goit cumparand marfuri, trimitandu-le acasa si plecand dupa ele ( dupa marfuri, evident.
    si bancile au ramas iar cu datorii de pe urma ilegalilor.
    in california chiar dadeau carti de credit emigrantilor ilegali care nu aveau nici macar social security!
    si terminati odata cu stereotipul asta ca americanii nu muncesc.
    muncesc peste tot – la mcdonalds, in constructii, in restaurante pe taxi, pe camioane samd.

  24. dr. jonesSpune:

    mai 1, 2009

    But wait! There’s more…and it’s even more disturbing. Bank of America is now issuing credit cards to Hispanic immigrants, many of whom are in the United States illegally, and who have no Social Security numbers, no federal income tax IDs, and no credit card history. As congressman Tom Tancredo (R-Colorado) put it, Bank of America views the 12 million illegal immigrants in this country as customers, not as lawbreakers.

    Most of Bank of America’s business is in California, home for thousands of Latinos who are in this country illegally. By obtaining credit cards, these illegal immigrants now have access to other forms of credit, helping to make amnesty a fait accompli, according to the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, D.C.
    ia sa facem un calcul: 12,000,000 x $1,000…
    si nici nu are de unde sa ii ia, in cazul in care nu mai plateste si pleaca!
    iar pe americani – ca sa primeasca un credit card ii verifica la sange de income, credit history, social security number samd.

  25. emilSpune:

    mai 1, 2009

    California e paradisul socialist al Americii. Una din cele mai neperformante economii dintre statele americane, impozitare pe tot ce misca, buget adinc pe rosu (datorii masive), intra cine vrea de unde vrea si face ce vrea, iar cei care s-au saturat pleaca pe capete in alte state americane… si sint din ce in ce mai multi (si unii si altii). Pleaca din ce in ce mai multi rezidenti talentati si muncitori si intra din ce in ce mai multi ilegali si slab calificati.

  26. Imperialistu'Spune:

    mai 1, 2009

    Iar dintre orase SAN FRANCISCO.

  27. emilSpune:

    mai 1, 2009

    If you’re going to San Francisco
    Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair
    If you’re going to San Francisco
    You’re gonna meet some gentle people there…

    sau asa…

    Versurile – din 1967 – sint profetice in felul lor:

    All across the nation such a strange vibration
    People in motion
    There’s a whole generation with a new explanation
    People in motion people in motion

  28. emilSpune:

    mai 1, 2009

    Mirela (de fapt oricine), iata citeva materiale interesante la confluenta subiectelor imigratie/demografie – stat asistential – economie – islam:

    Heirs to Fortuyn?


    The World’s New Numbers

    Re: Population Data – Mark Steyn

  29. Transsylvania PhoenixSpune:

    mai 1, 2009


    California e paradisul socialist al Americii. Una din cele mai neperformante economii dintre statele americane, impozitare pe tot ce misca, buget adinc pe rosu (datorii masive), intra cine vrea de unde vrea si face ce vrea, iar cei care s-au saturat pleaca pe capete in alte state americane… si sint din ce in ce mai multi (si unii si altii). Pleaca din ce in ce mai multi rezidenti talentati si muncitori si intra din ce in ce mai multi ilegali si slab calificati.

    Zi-mi ceva nou, Emile.
    De-abia astept sa-si termine nevasta-mea studiile si ziua urmatoare dupa ceremonia de graduare am incarcat tot ce am in casa in U-Haul si directia AZ, MT, NV, FL, UT…oriunde in America se traieste mai bine decit in Kommiefornia (cu exceptia a citeva state aflate sub control Libocratilor)

  30. costinSpune:

    mai 1, 2009

    emil ce greu e sa lucrezi ca oamenii normali. Pusesem ochii pe articolul despre Fortuyn si am uitat ????

  31. Transsylvania PhoenixSpune:

    mai 1, 2009

    Am uitat sa mentionez…cu mine pleaca si businessul meu, si taxele mele.
    Las’ ca vine Pedro, Juanita, cei zece copii ai lor si bunicii lor din Mexico ca sa imi ia locul. Numai ca in loc sa plateasca taxe, familia lui Pedo or sa ia un bani de la stat. Unemployment, medical care, food stamps, munca la negru…
    Sa va traiasca si infloresca… si sa va spalati pe cap cu ei madam Feistein, Pelosi si Herr Schwartzenneger!

  32. emilSpune:

    mai 1, 2009

    Transsylvania, pe de o parte imi pare rau – m-am mutat cu catel si purcel de citeva ori si nu e usor – dar pe de alta parte ma bucur ca ai vointa de realiza ceva mai bun pentru tine si familie. Succes!

  33. Imperialistu'Spune:

    mai 1, 2009

    Sfarsitul lumii

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